Indiana Writers

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Comment by Stephan Loy on June 29, 2009 at 8:42pm

Comment by Rich Wells on June 23, 2009 at 2:52pm

BWAH HA HA! How does this whole internet thing work again? I see I posted my reaction to James' piece here AND on the thread. D'oh!

*facepalm*

Sorry guys. I'll figure this all out yet....

Comment by Rich Wells on June 23, 2009 at 9:46am

If this is too long or too detailed a reaction, let me know, and I'll shorten it up in the future. Also, as you might have noticed from my characters in Dogfight, I can exercise a pretty foul mouth at times. If my profanity offends anyone, let me know, and I'll honor the group's sensibilities.

The following are just my opinions and reactions. I by no means consider myself an expert on what it takes to get published. I only know what other people have told me and what I’ve read and what I’ve observed myself, and a lot of that is probably bullshit. The things I mention are simply thrown out here for your consideration. Take them or leave them, depending on whether or not you believe they are valid points.

Having finished the section you gave us, I still have no idea what the title means, and I have no idea what the plot is. I’ve read almost 20,000 words into a novel, but I don’t know what it’s about, other than Topher vs. Vromm. And THAT could be problematic from a publishability standpoint.

Your paragraphs and sentences are smoothly written. No problem there.
Your action scenes were FANTASTIC. Seriously. Some of the best I’ve read, and this is the fourth writers group I’ve been to, reading and reacting to dozens of writers’ material. It’s even better action than a lot of professional authors. The action kicked Laurell K. Hamilton’s ass, imo.

I didn’t care for the Vromm dossier. You can dump it. Or, at the very least, drop the first two paragraphs. They don’t really give the reader any insight into Vromm, I don’t think. The executive order that kicks off the book, likewise, is material that at first I read, but after a few lines, I skimmed and then skipped. If it’s not going to be referred to later in the book, then I’d say either trim it down to a few lines, or else get rid of it altogether. It’s unnecessary words.

Part of the story is written in first person. Part in third person omniscient. Part in third person limited. The POV Nazis will get you on that one. It didn’t bother me too much, but I noticed it.

I expected Nooria to play a major role in the story. Then you yanked her away from the reader when they were getting attached to her. You showed her admirable traits through Topher’s eyes. I wanted her to be a part of the main conflict in the story, an ally and a potential romantic interest for Topher. And then she was gone. I honestly felt cheated.

The time-skipping makes the story hard to follow. I didn’t pay close enough attention to the time stamps—and a lot of readers won’t—and so I didn’t understand what was going on with the Afghanistan mission. It wasn’t until I was all the way through the four-chapter flashback—and THAT is a long-ass flashback—that I realized that it was indeed a flashback.

At the end of chapter one, Topher talks about a bio, and then NOTHING. And I was like, ‘Who the hell is the bio about?’…And the reader doesn’t find out until Chapter 6…and if they didn’t notice the time stamp, by that time, they may be utterly confused.

The firefight was excellent, I reiterate. Best part of the whole damn piece. More of that, please.

The bisexual villain is a bit of a cliché. It can work, but it will turn off some readers—and possibly some industry professionals.

Honestly, the first chapter left me cold. If I read that first chapter while standing in a bookstore, I would have given up on your story before I got to chapter 2. “Donkey bomb” was where the story thoroughly engaged me; and I remained engaged until Topher tells us he never saw Nooria again. And at that point, I felt cheated. I had invested an emotional attachment to her, and she was gone.

Also, you spent an awful lot of time on the Timo interrogation, considering that Timo is now out of the picture. He served a minor role…you made him a sympathetic dupe for Vromm. And then you told us he wasn’t a part of the rest of the story.

I found Topher’s naivette about firearms difficult to accept. I don’t own a gun, but I understand that a Desert Eagle is a showpiece that can punch a hole in a wall, isn’t very accurate, and can just about sever a limb. I don’t know why Topher wouldn’t understand that, when Mike is talking to him; since Topher’s life depends on his proficiency with firearms. It seems to me like he’d be a little more sophisticated about the topic.

You yourself said that series fiction is like printing money for publishers, and that people come back for the CHARACTERS. Through about 20,000 words, you’ve only given your reader one character that they can count on hanging around: Topher. I’m sure Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell (yes, after reading Vromm’s dossier, I finally got the joke…) and Mike will probably all be around for a while, but your reader will like Nooria and they may or may not feel sympathy for Timo, but no sooner do you introduce them to us than you snatch them away. So your reader may feel like there’s no point in becoming attached to ANY of your characters, because they’ll all just drop out of sight at the end of the chapter where you introduced them. Maybe. And I feel that this may be a roadblock to your story’s being picked up for publication.

I got all fanboyish when I read about Vromm chasing Nooria and Topher in Afghanistan. Seriously, writing scenes like those bodes well for your aspiration to write series fiction. I shit you not, I actually got chills when I read a couple of those paragraphs. The pieces in question were this:

“Wizards sense each other, unless the other guy tries to hide. My precognition was still firing images into my brain, and suddenly one burned right into my skull, overwhelming everything else. Momentous events tend to do that to me.”

And this:

“Then, the entire atmosphere changed, literally. The gunman and I felt it at the same time, the buzz of magick, something powerful. The sound of the engines turned way down, and my ears popped like crazy. His eyes went wide like saucers, and his twisted grin became a soundless scream.
Nooria was a wizard. “

Chills, I shit you not. And there aren’t many published authors who can do that to me. Neil Gaiman was the last, with parts of Anansi Boys. That’s not intended to be empty flattery. It’s just the truth. When I thought this story was going to be about Nooria and Topher, I was hooked. When Nooria left, never to be seen again, I was sort of lost.

I had a difficulty with the plausibility of Topher being hit in the shoulder with a fifty caliber round and still being able to hang on in a depressurized airplane. I’m not sure he could do that. You could have him buckle into his seat before he got shot, and that would solve that problem, if it was problematic for anyone other than me.

And, I thought that scene where Topher cried on the beach was implausible. He looked like a total pussy to me, and not really consistent with the swagger I thought I detected coming from him in the first chapter. I liked no-nonsense, firefight Topher. Chapter One Topher and weeping Topher? I didn’t like those guys so much. I didn’t get a feel that Topher was a character who behaved consistently. I understand that some characters are a little complicated, but this didn’t feel like complexity to me. It felt like I couldn’t get a handle on who this fellow is.

Your explanation of the precognition and the discussion of ‘walking in between raindrops’ was great writing, imo.

You yourself said that series fiction is like printing money for publishers, and that people come back for the CHARACTERS. Through about 20,000 words, you’ve only given your reader one character that they can count on hanging around: Topher. I’m sure Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell (yes, after reading Vromm’s dossier, I finally got the joke…) and Mike will probably all be around for a while, but your reader will like Nooria and they may or may not feel sympathy for Timo, but no sooner do you introduce them to us than you snatch them away. So your reader may feel like there’s no point in becoming attached to ANY of your characters, because they’ll all just drop out of sight at the end of the chapter where you introduced them. Maybe. And I feel that this may be a roadblock to your story’s being picked up for publication.

That’s all from me. There were a lot of typos and grammar and style errors, but you or someone else with a good eye can clean those up with no problem.

I can give you a line-by-line critique if you want me to. Just give the word. It’s good material, and I’m pretty confident that YOU know where you’re going. It’s just that I don’t have a clue, and I’m not sure I care. Of course, I care as a colleague and as a student of the craft of writing; but if I paid good money for your book and I didn’t know you from Adam, I would wonder if I hadn’t wasted my money on this one at the end of what I read. Hopefully, it all comes together in the end. If Vromm were on some vendetta against Nooria, THAT would be a story I would continue reading about.

Comment by starrwolf on May 23, 2009 at 11:39pm

I am sorry guys this month has been a real headache and every time I get ready to go the meet up something comes up. I am hoping June will be a better month for me so please keep me inform since I missed a lot.

Comment by Serra on May 11, 2009 at 11:35am

So what coolness did I miss while I was out of town?

Comment by starrwolf on May 9, 2009 at 10:54am

I apologize for missing the last 3 meetings...life has gotten complicated somewhat so I have had to taken care of some things. I can make the last meeting if someone is willing to pick me up but on the 16th of this month i have a previous engagement with an old friend and I cant miss that ....I try to keep my promises :)

Comment by Serra on April 30, 2009 at 9:06pm

Check it out, we're a featured group! We are sooooo cool! I blame all of you guys...mainly Cuthulu, but then he kinda controls everything anyway...

Comment by Richelle Moore on April 30, 2009 at 9:03pm

Hello all! I've written 3 books and I'd love some critique/feedback! Thanks you all...

Comment by Serra on April 30, 2009 at 8:57pm

Hey new peeps! Glad to see new ppl here.

Comment by starrwolf on April 14, 2009 at 1:59pm

people of the meetup group can send critques of my story via the net thru my email. I am still hoping to get to the next meeting and see how my story was recieved and devoured by my fellow writers. If anyone can give me a ride or give me info for me to get by bus ill appreciate it since this may be the only time i will be using the metro system but lemme know what you think !!

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